Richard Godfrey is CEO at ⁠Rocketmakers⁠, investor, entrepreneur and technology innovator with a proven history of delivering major systems via Rocketmakers, Microsoft and Deloitte over the last 30+ years. Richard holds the Queens Award for Enterprise: Innovation and Lifetime Achievement.

Based in Bath, ⁠Rocketmakers⁠ is a team of software developers that build innovative software, apps and websites for startups, scaleups and large organisations who are working to have a positive impact in the world. Richard shares the Rocketmakers journey to tech for good, becoming B-Corp certified and hopes for the South-West as a centre for tech for good.

Transcript

Annie Legge 0:00

Hello, and welcome to the Tech for Good southwest Podcast. I'm Annie Legge, your host for this episode, here today with Richard Godfrey from Rocketmakers. Hello, Richard.

Richard Godfrey 0:17

Hi, Annie. How are you?

Annie Legge

Yeah, I'm good. I was just saying to you, I think wasn't I pleased that the sun shining today in Bath?

Richard Godfrey

Yes I need to get out more and enjoy. I think definitely, yeah.

Annie Legge 0:21

We'll be doing that after this for sure. So thank you so much, Richard, for joining for joining us today, I'm really excited to sort of explore a little bit more about your journey, particularly around Tech for Good obviously, that's very, very close to your heart as well. I wondered if you could just first introduce yourself and a little bit about Rocketmakers.

Richard Godfrey 0:38

Yeah, we'd love to thank you. So yeah, so I suppose career wise, I've, I've always been in the computing area. So did a computer science degree, spent some time working for a big consultancy Deloitte, and then spent some time at Microsoft and enjoyed my time there looking at new technology, and how that could apply to different environments. And then back in 2007, with a couple of colleagues set up a couple of good AI principles, which eventually became Rocketmarkers. And and that was really about how do we, how do we use technology to solve interesting problems.

We've spent a lot of time over the last 15 years now of doing just that working with a lot of interesting small startups, helping them build their ideas, then sort of growing scale up businesses, and also some some pretty big businesses who try to do interesting sort of app web development and software. So that's our, our approach is delivering software solves interesting problems. And I suppose we try and do that, historically tried to do that around three core areas, I think I mentioned in the past, with us, a little Venn diagram that's always sitting in my head, which is around innovation, quality and purpose. And if we can find it, innovation is doing something new, it might be a new technology, it might be a new business model, something that's different, the quality is trying to build the right product, and then build the product, right. So understanding that we don't want to build things that aren't generally going to be useful. And then when we do build them, something that is of a quality that you can build and build upon. And then the purpose, one being sort of the Tech for Good error area is really how to address what we do make the world a better place. And can we find some ways to tie in with ESG goals in the sorts of projects that we get to do?

Annie Legge 2:24

Amazing, thank you. That was a good, very clear introduction. And obviously, the bit we're particularly interested in is the purpose element of your Venn diagram. And so to you is, is the sort of purpose elements specifically, where an initiative or something or project is social impact related?

Richard Godfrey 2:41

Yeah, I think it's, I mean, our our overall vision is really to make sure that the technology that we help build has an impact across least 50 million people. And so in that sense, we're always looking for where where are the ways where technology can be used for social economic good, in ways that perhaps are pushing things forward? So a lot of a lot of our projects historically have been in sort of wellbeing space in perhaps in health care, in fair trade. So there's lots of areas where we find lots of sort of interesting angles that provide that kind of purpose relevant for what we do.

Annie Legge 3:22

So yeah, I'm interested, Richard, around whether there's a set of certain criteria that you use to kind of evaluate a new project before you take it on, particularly from a sort of purpose and impact perspective.

Richard Godfrey 3:34

Yeah, good question. I think so I suppose initially, you know, many, many years ago, when we were doing it, we didn't really have any of that it was just a sort of gut reaction. But over the years, we've we've honed that down a lot more, I suppose the first place to start is we have a sort of ethical policy of projects. So we, we go through that and just make sure that it doesn't, doesn't hit any of these sort of unethical areas where we we just don't work in at all. And then after that, we tend to have a kind of, I suppose it's like a little bit of a due diligence process that you might have for sort of investing in things.

We've over the years invested in a lot of early stage startups and built those those and that due diligence, I suppose. Is it just making sure that the right approaches are being taken by the founders of those businesses and, and that we can, yeah, we can sort of feel confident that it's going to have the sort of impact that we that we hope it will. So these days, yeah, it's a little bit more formal, hopefully, still very friendly. But what we're starting to think about, really, what, what sort of size of impact would be what the right approaches to, to this project would be. And if we've formalised it even more in the last year where we've we've created something called the Collaboratorium, which I still can't spell when I tried to write it down. But the the idea of the Collaboratorium is to try and formalise the approaches that we get for the sort of pro bono use of our time to build things So to try and coordinate those in a more simplistic way where people can apply, and then we apply a percentage of our turnover into those sorts of projects specifically,

Annie Legge 5:10

What would be the difference between a project that might be suited to the I would say, Now, the collaborative area, versus projects that would just come in a more traditional way, but are particularly social impact and purpose focused?

Richard Godfrey 5:25

Yeah, often it's, it is those that are coming from sort of charitable sources, etc, where there really is very little things that are great things to do. But really, there isn't that sort of impetus or money behind it as an example. So to give you an example of one of those, the moment is some work that we just kicked off with Fairfield House in Bath, where they're looking at how to use technology, to understand who their users are, and to be able to map that out a bit more effectively. And there are a CIC, they have a lot of time and effort, the volunteering that goes on is really not directed into the use of technology. But we feel like we can add some value to to that by going through that approach.

Annie Legge 6:09

That's amazing. I'm just thinking back to, I think you said in impact the lives of 50 million people through their, through the work that you do and the software that you build, is there a way of practically measuring that within Rocketmakers or, yeah, I'm just really interested in how I suppose you measure that progress as a business towards that goal.

Richard Godfrey 6:31

It is really hard. And we've tried very hard to get quite specific about it. So certainly, in the sense, it's a, it's a guiding light for us as much as anything. So we're not, we're not trying to overly measure the detail of it. But we want to make sure that the things that we're trying to do a movie as towards that overall, I mean, in some respects, you could say that some of the projects that we've done, over the years, perhaps have already hit that kind of thing.

So for example, you know, over over the years, we've built and helped run the medical record system for all the Olympic athletes in the UK, so which was used in Rio and Tokyo. And that's why the success of those teams, maybe we played a small part in the technology that we built, helping reduce illness and injury and, and engaging with those. And that may have had a positive impact on the 50 million people in the UK at the time. So you can sort of lend that kind of number to some extent.

But we want to be a little bit more tangible than that. So we want to try and say, you know, where we're building things? Can we track the number of people that are generally using a product and an understanding that, of course, there's some times when that just doesn't, it's just not appropriate? Obviously, we don't want to go against any GDPR or other sort of privacy concerns around who's using applications, etc. So we have to kind of take a little bit of direction from it, but without worrying too much about the detail.

Annie Legge 8:02

I think that's, that definitely makes sense. I think the you've talked about the medical records project, obviously, that was a very large scale and potentially still something that you're doing Fairfield house being an example of a very sort of local, local based organisation in barf, can you talk a little bit about other projects that you've been involved with it, particularly from a sort of social impact space thing, it's really helpful to think about the different ways you can talk about tech for good.

Richard Godfrey 8:30

For sure. I think a lot of things that we've been doing in the last few years have oriented around to the well being in different ways. So that's whether it's mental health well being or what sort of physical, it approaches. So we see a lot of sort of people coming at well being from lots of different directions, often using an app to track and understand things. So we've a good example is it's wave six, which have recently created a really interesting app, and the founder they're coming at it from the more data that you can understand, the more helpful it is to the decision making of the circumstances and situations that you're in.

We've been doing some stuff in Bristol, coming into the summer is really exciting. Lots of unicorns are going to appear in Bristol. Working with Leukaemia Care people who are looking at leukaemia care and and there's going to be lots of painted unicorns popping up all over Bristol, and we've been helping build a trail and an app that can help with augmented reality so that kids can engage in that and really enjoy the experience. And hopefully you can impact in the funding process of leukaemia care to to deliver that going forward.

Annie Legge 9:43

That sounds great. Can't wait to see all those unicorns in Bath as well!

Richard Godfrey 9:49

Well, I think we've done we've done lions and owls in Bath and stuff. So it's yeah, it's hopefully there'll be one of those coming up again soon and we can get involved with it. But I think it's nice to have those different different types of applications. Yeah, those that, that are perhaps people building things for, for genuine sort of serious impact that's there. But also some of the more engaging jovial aspects as well, which can just entertain people as well in the process.

Annie Legge 10:16

But that must be also those types of projects must be really motivating for your team, as well, in terms of just a bit more lighthearted and a bit fun.

Richard Godfrey 10:25

Yeah, definitely, it's a really, it's really nice to have that kind of balance of things. And I guess one of the one of the key things with the hiring people into rocket makers is always part of that has always been people that want to have an impact and do that. So I guess it's kind of an, it's an important sort of part of our process. And the crew here is people who care about those sorts of things. So given an opportunity to get involved in in those in different ways, and whether those are big applications that might have a big reach, but also just that sort of small fun things is, it's a nice sort of diverse set of applications to build.

Annie Legge 10:59

So it must be challenging, though, to balance as a, as a business that essentially needs to be a sustainable business, the balance between the sort of social impact work and the projects that you really, really want to do, and that you're sort of designing yourselves to do with actually also kind of trying to be financially viable. And I presume that there are times in which you have to, perhaps focus more on different sorts of projects. They're, they're still within your Venn diagram, but maybe the the purpose of it is a little bit further out.

Richard Godfrey 11:30

Yeah, that's really, that is really true. And I'd love that I'd hate for anybody think that, you know, we just work with sort of tech for good projects and entirely purpose oriented, because I think that would be unfair. So yeah, for me, a lot of a lot of rocket makers is about innovative work. And we became a B Corp last year. And I think that sort of really sets the bedrock of the the kind of purpose element of what we do as a business overall.

So we make sure that really there is the sort of three, the three levels of engagement as we run the business, and but at the same time, guess there's things that we do that are it's very hard to tie purpose has been at the core part of it, finances a great example where, you know, we've, you know, we love doing some finance projects, there's some real innovation that's happening in, in the finance space, but it's not necessarily one that you naturally associate with, with purpose driven businesses.

Having said that, you know, we're working with great businesses like, like seckel, in the finance space, where they're really trying to make a significant difference in the types of, you know, financial engagement that people have and the opportunities that people have to invest in, in projects, and then funds, which are the right sort of social impact space.

Annie Legge 12:51

You mentioned becoming a B Corp. And I think that was quite recently, wasn't it?

Richard Godfrey 12:55

It was, but it seems to have taken us an awful long time to go through the process of that. And a lot of hard work, actually, it's something that I thought it was, was really important.

One of the early startups that that we work with, it was a company called Neighbourly who do a lot of social impact work. And with a lot of the big supermarkets, etc. And they were one of the very first B corps in the region. So we were quite close to what they were doing with that. And then a few years later, we've sort of looked at it ourselves and thought, actually, we're doing all the sorts of things that we should be doing. And and it should be quite a natural fit as a B Corp.

But all of the things that we needed to adjust and document has been the interesting challenge, I think, for me, even down to changing the whole sort of Memorandum of the company of a holding company, it's very wide reaching in the whole thinking that needs to be done in the supply chain. So I Yeah, it's took us a while. And actually, there's so many companies really that are trying to move towards B Corp membership, that there's quite a delay in getting through the approval process these days, which is got to be a good thing, I suppose.

Annie Legge 14:01

Yeah, I'd be interested to know their focus that you have as a business in terms of the types of work that you do. So particularly, obviously, there's focus around tech good social impact projects that you'd like to do, did that come into that process of being a B Corp at all? Or is it much more around how you're, I guess how you're set up as an organisation not not necessarily what you're doing?

Richard Godfrey 14:24

It's certainly touches on the sorts of projects that we do. So we certainly use those to really sort of reference and, and validate some of the things that we were doing, but most of it is really the core of the business. So the whole sort of governance processes that you go through the whole team engagement, bringing people on board where they understand the overall sort of vision and values to the company.

So there's a lot of stuff which is kind of just the core, how you run a company and also all the people that you deal with in the day to day engagement in the company. So your suppliers and customers as well. So I think what I loved about it was it was a really well rounded and challenging way of looking at the business and and even though we didn't have to change any of the sorts of things we were doing, because we were already doing them, just just thinking about them and how we referenced them and document them was, it's time consuming, and it made you sort of take a step back and think about how you were doing things. And I think that was really helpful,

Annie Legge 15:27

and having that certification. Now, do you feel any differently? Do you think that you're sort of staff feel any differently having that certification,

Richard Godfrey 15:38

I suppose the things that we do hasn't changed, but I think we've had people sort of external to the company, look at what we're doing and validate that against other other great businesses. The interesting thing for me around that is that there's a points process. So you have to have at least 80 points in order to qualify. And some companies like our good friends at neighbourly are beating that by leaps and bounds, you know, they're in the well into the triple figures and, and doing astonishing stuff. And we've got more work to do around that. So we have to kind of get reviewed in three years time, and we have to improve our scores. So the nice thing about the model is that you're always thinking about what you can do better. And I think from a team perspective, that external validations been important. But I think it's also just knowing that we need to keep improving our game we can week out around it is is a motivator for us all

Annie Legge 16:37

I think the fact that you have to re-certify means that it wasn't a just make it all good for now. There's that sort of sense of actually, you've got to make progress and me tight, tangible progress. Definitely. So quite a broad question for you. And it may it may be that you've talked about it already, in terms of impacting the lives of 50 million people. But if you had a magic wand, what impact would you most like to have as Rocketmakers?

Richard Godfrey 17:04

That's a tough question, isn't it? Yeah, I think I think we have touched on it there. But I think I think it's really, what really excites me is how new technology can be used in a positive way to solve real social and business problems.

So I think we're seeing lots of change, and also very rapid change at the moment in the world of technology, things like AI is a great example. We've been working with AI for many years, but the acceleration of that in the last sort of six months or so has been absolutely incredible. And it changes the way lots of things can happen in the future. And I think that's, you know, both social economic impact, but also on people's lives and jobs and those things. So I think looking at how we can use those technologies in a positive way, and make them really effective. We've also been doing a lot of work in the last few years around 3d. The whole idea of the metaverse and virtual reality, augmented reality.

Again, there's lots of sort of doomsday elements around the way people can perceive these, but they're also fantastic ways where they can have a massive impact on reducing travel, that people take, etc. So, so I suppose, for me, it's looking at these new technologies, sort of VR, AR AI, and and looking at the problems that we can help to solve and then using the resources of a rocket maker's and then collaborating with as many other people who have interesting sort of alignment with that together to make a positive use of that technology.

Annie Legge 18:45

That's great. And I think that was a nice segue to what would is typically my sort of finish your question, which is around what does Tech for Good mean, to you? And I think you've very much defined it as how technology particularly new technology can be applied to social social problems and social challenges.

Richard Godfrey 19:04

Yeah, for sure. I suppose Tech for Good is also a way of that kind of collaboration. We talk about the collaboratory, them and the word that's there. But it's also about how do we how do we use technology and work together as a sort of wider society to create things that are going to have the biggest impact? So I think that kind of collaboration between like minded organisations and is a great opportunity. And for me, you know, there's elements of the B Corp piece which fit into that. It might just be a badge, but it actually does give you some indication as to you know, these people care enough to go through the process and other great people potentially to work with on solving some of the problems that are out there. So I think, yeah, it's using technology, looking at real problems that are there, perhaps looking at the whole sort of ESG space and then collaborating with other like minded people to have some useful impact in the process.

Annie Legge 19:58

Yeah, absolutely. sort of agree 100%, around all of that. And that's a sort of broad picture of what Tech for Good can be and what it can mean. What would your hopes be for us as a region around Tech for Good, and I know that you in particular do do a lot to support growth across the region do a lot of support in that space, so interested in what you think may be possible for us to do as a region around that kind of Tech for Good agenda?

Richard Godfrey 20:29

I think we do pretty well, I think it's easy to look at all the things that that are going well in this space. But actually, I think as a region, we do really, really well. It's people like you and Dot Project and lots of the other different organisations that, that try and join the dots and connect people up that are trying to do similar things. That's really helpful.

Remember, I think, this whole Bath Bristol, in fact that the broader Southwest region just has I suppose, a natural way of collaborating, people don't often see sort of competitive situations, I think they're looking for the collaborative opportunities that are there. And I think that's a real, that's a real positive.

So I think we should celebrate what is great about this region is that we, we do a pretty good job of doing some interesting things and working together to, to do that. I'm sure there's always more that that we can do, and, and hopefully things like, you know, podcasts like this, and stuff can get a wider audience and people engaging with those people who are active in the space. And actually, that then just accelerates everything.

Annie Legge 21:31

Yeah, and I love that particularly. The purpose of this podcast was also to surface, the fact that actually, there is a lot of amazing tech for good in this region, in lots of different perspectives, you know, organisations like rocket makers, of course, but actually what a charity is doing around digital and technology, what are our sort of new startups? What are the problems that people are looking to solve, and the challenges that they have as well. So I think that creating that space for reflection, but also doing doing as much as we can collaboration being an absolute key to that. So thank you so much for sharing a little bit about rocket makers and your journey, but particularly the types of tech for good projects that you work on, and maybe we can just finish with how people might apply to your Collaboratorium or get in touch if they have got a Tech for Good project that they'd be interested in talking to you about.

Richard Godfrey 22:22

So certainly, Rocketmakers.com is our website. And, as on there, there's a page about the Collaboratorium in which gives details there's a form that people can fill into to apply for that. So please just search for Collaboratorium and Rocketmakers and or drop me an email. So Richard@rocketmakers.com Very pleased to hear from anybody that has any interesting things that they'd love to do.

Annie Legge 22:48

Absolutely, I know for a fact that you're very welcome and open to all ideas and having conversations about those. So don't be nervous and bring forward your amazing tech for good ideas. Thank you so much, Richard been a real pleasure to talk to you today.

Richard Godfrey 23:02

Thanks. Likewise, as always, thank you.